Windshield Spread

[BensonWdby]

We have a 99 Mobius with walkthrough bow. Also have a Rad-a-Cage.
We noticed that after 30 hours the center pane of the windshield
was almost falling through the opening. It appeared as though the
opening was getting wider. Since we were not original owner the
warranty was no good so we got no help from Moomba.
We had the original dealer reset the windshield (at significant cost to us).
After another 70 hours the problem has returned. I am wondering
if this happens to all open bows? It certainly gives me the impression
that the hull is changing shape.

Any experience or ideas would be appreciated.

Thanks
Dave

[noneya]

I have a 2001 Outback that had the same prob when I originally got it from the dealer. They had to remove the windshield and re-install a new one. They said this was because they had to remove all the mounting hardware, fill the holes in the fiberglass and redrill new holes to get the proper alignment. Since I got mine at the beginning of the season I waited till I got it winterized to have this done (the boat would have been at the fiberglass shop for at least a week). So I havent had any more exprerience with mine yet but it did get worse through the summer.

[BensonWdby]

Do you have a wakeboard tower? I keep thinking the stress from the tower is deforming the hull. My dealer keeps asking me to see if it changes when the boat is in the water (vs. on the trailer), i.e. , maybe the hull is flexing?
Our dealer also had to remove windshield, fill holes, and remount, but did not need new windshield.

Thanks for the feedback
Dave

Unfortunately I dont have a tower. I couldn't tell any difference in mine in or out of the water. After trailering to or form the lake it would get really jammed up and you would have to tug the two apart to be able to swing it open. Thru-out the year it got harder to tug.

[noneya]

No tower on our boat. The windshield came that way from the factory on our boat, it did get worse through the year

[Kraig]

Wow!! This seems to be a very big problem. Before I purchased my Outback last year (2002) I was looking at a barely used 2000 Outback. One of the issues I noticed it was having was the walk thru part of the windshield was resting on the fiberglass on the driver side of the walk thru. The guy who owned it said that the dealership was going to repair that.
Then I decided on a new Outback and I too am having that exact same problem. The walk thru part of the windshield is resting on the fiberglass rubbing a hole in the finish. I'm already scheduled in with my dealer to repair the problem and I too am having it remounted. This is a problem I think Moomba needs to be concerned with. It never dawned on my to think that the hull could be flexing, but now that you mention it.... I always thought, byt he looks of it, that it was the hinge on the windshield. In any case, it's good to hear that Moomba has stepped up to the plate and it taking care of all of us. I'm sorry to hear about the guy who brought this problem to light here on the board. In my opinion, I think Moomba should've taken care of the problem. There's no doubt it's a problem across many Outbacks. Just a suggestion.....you may want to look into paying the price to transfer the Hull Warranty. Just my 2 cents!

[BensonWdby]

I was not aware that there was way to transfer the hull warranty.
I bought our Mobius from original owner and he had no paperwork on it.
When I brought it in to the dealer they never mentioned that I could have transfered the warranty.

Not only did Moomba not handle it, they never even responded to my email regarding the situation.
I love my boat, but that is not much for customer service.

Thanks for the feedback,
Dave

[Kraig]

Benson-
I'm surprise the original owner didn't say anything to you about the Hull transfer. And the dealership didn't say anything to you......? Hmmm..... Check with Moomba on this, I'm not up on all that needs to happen or exactly how the hull transfer works. It's a Lifetime Limited Hull warranty. Get with Moomba, I have faith they will give you the customer service you need and deserve!
Kraig

[brucevanderbilt]

I too have this problem with my 1999 Moomba Outback. In anything other than glass water I have to keep my windshield open, because waves cause my hull to flex so much that the center window frame falls through the opening and jams underneath the driver side frame. I now have very deep gashes in the glass under the frame. The only way for me to unjam it is to completely disassemble the center window frame, and reassemble it back in it's normal position. It took me twice to learn that I just need to keep the window open when moving. Sounds like this is a problem I'm going to have to live with. I'm really disappointed to learn that this continues to be a problem in newer Moomba's. This may change my future buying decisions...

[Retirement Fund]

I addressed this very concern before purchasing my 03 mobius. The dealer told me that Moomba has switched windows for this model year to hopefully address and solve this problem. Of course this doesn't help anyone who has an older model, but hopefully it will resolve the problem from continuing in the future. Also if this is a problem with the hull shape fluctuating then I don't really guess it matters what kind of window is on the boat. I guess they know more about what is going on with their boats than I do. I just hope that the problem is fixed.

[catdog]

I've been observing the variation in windshield gap on our 99 Outback now for 4 full seasons / 285 hours. I'll share this with my OPINION, for what its worth....

Gap seems widest just when the hull impacts the water after crossing a large wake. Windshield has never dropped-through ( but we usually keep it open).

The hull movement is clearly evident in rough water with the windshield open. More people on board in rough water appears to result in more flex. I have no measurements on this.

Gap between the moveable and stationary windshield frames seems normal on flat water with windshield closed when boat has been on the water for a day or so. Normal gap in my opinion (visual guesstimate) is about 8 or 10 mm.

Gap also seems to stay normal with windshield closed when boat is freshly driven onto the trailer after a day on the water.

Gap definitely gets much wider on the trailer by the time we tow it home (80 minutes).

Boat has been on trailer in garage for 5 months and gap between frames actually measures 19 mm near top of windshield; 15 mm near bottom. So, the gap isn't actually square. Total width of the metal the retaining edge is about 33 mm, so I think I have plenty of leeway.

If the gap starts to widen, then maybe I would square and remount my windshield, but I doubt that will change the inherent hull flex.

This overall issue doesn't bother me too much. I did expect more rigidity, but the sheer enjoyment and overall value my family gets from this Outback outweighs this issue. We would not have a ski boat if this brand hadn't been available.

Of course, I assume the fiberglass structure is strong enough to sustain such hull flex for a long, long time.

[moombamania]

Question out of curiosity more than anyting.

How many people experiencing the windshield spread issue run with fat sacs on the side of their engine boxes or up front in the walk through?

I do not have this flex issue (hope to never have) but I do run fat at times, generally behind the engine. But I get in some boats that are truely going for the big air ramps and they are packing the weight in to do it as well. Fats in back, engine sides and bow. Just looking for input

[catdog]

Real good question. I generally run with 3 to 6 teenagers, a cooler, and about 30 lbs of tools ( including two big pipe wrenches to adjust the packing gland nut if needed ).

We are 75% ski / 25% wakeboarding. We use a 6 foot skylon with bow tether for wakeboarding, no sacks, and redistribute the people to the back ( @ 15 to 18 mph ) for wake generation.

It seems like coast guard nameplate rating for 99's is only 8 people or 1100 lbs including engine, so I have little room to add further ballast. Water is heavy.

But, I'm loaded-up, to your point.

[brucevanderbilt]

I've experienced the problem mostly when running in the 30-45mph range and without ballast, but loaded with 6-8 people. Those are the two occasions when the hull flex was enough for the center windshield to drop through.

I typically don't run higher speeds when loaded with ballast.
When I am loaded up though, I have a 500lb sac in the front and two 250lb sacs in the back. Plus I have a tower, and I typically have 4 to 8 people in the boat. I notice some flex, but haven't had enough to jam up the center windshield when running in the 0-25mph range loaded-up.

[tn_viper]

Hey there,

I have a 1999 Mobius, and well the windshield spread on my boat is there all the time. Doesn't matter if I am the only one in the boat or I have a full load. This started the second year I had the boat. Hasn't beed bad enough for the center section to fall through but it will get stuck some and the latches that hold it from going forward don't catch at all.

Have a great day

[tn_viper]

I am the original owner of my 1999 Mobius. How do I contact Moomba to see if they will do something about my windshield? I do run the built in fat sac but no extra yet. Was going to get a 750lb for the front but havn't yet. Do mostly skiing with a little boarding thrown in for fun.

Any have any ideas?

Thanks

[BensonWdby]

We typically have a fat sack on the passenger side of the engine and one behind the engine in front of the back seat. Sometimes we will put one behind the driver.
Seems to be enought to throw a back roll.

As mentioned we already had the windshield repositioned once, about $400 and a week lost in the shop. My concern is that the new displacement is in addition to the original displacement, rather than an indication of the same displacement.

We have not watched it that closely for all the different conditions, but I am pretty sure it is like that on the trailer (in storage right now).

I tried to contact Moomba when this first happened, but no response.

Judging by the lack of response from the Supra folks who monitor this board I am guessing we probably will not get much satisfaction from them. I am afraid I do not hold out much hope.


I also love my boat otherwise and will probably take some measssure to modify the window to prevent it from falling through, just not sure what yet.

Thanks for all the feedback on this.
Dave

[tn_viper]

Well I didn't know that Moomba would do anything about it, but seems that for some here they have. That is what I would like to find out. This seems to be a factory defect in the hull design. My boat did it the first summer and hasn't gotten much worse since. I figured that since I am the orginal owner of the boat, and it is supposed to have a hull warrenty that I would see if they would.

The dealer where I bought the boat from is no longer in business, which is a real shame they were great. So don't know who to ask or trun to.

The boat is great I most ski behind it so no fat sac's added. The good thing is on the lake I use I have one of only three Mooma boats that are on the lake. Most are other brands.

Have a great day.

Ski hard :)

Ronnie

[catdog]

I cornered the my dealer tech guy/salesman and a Moomba rep together at a boatshow in February and we discussed the issue. I told them I was not real unhappy, but that the flex issue was something about the boat that was below my expectations.

The sales/tech guy said that they reset windhields if the gap is bad. ( I assumed this was warranty work, but didn't go there because that's not what I want ).

They said that the old windshield frame is not as rigid as the newer ones, so it gets out-of-alignment.

I explained that I believed the issue is not windshield alignment, but measurable and variable flex of the hull.

They repeated that the new boats had improved windshields and showed me how it differed from the old ones.

When pressed a little bit further, one of them said that the new hull designs also have an "extra" stringer built under the floor for support in the middle of the boat.

We had a little more speculative discussion about how I might retrofit something to add structural rigidity to my hull. No easy answers were offered.

Personally, I thought adding a tower might help ( kinda like adding a targa roof on a convertible porsche ) but you guys with towers are still seeing the gap/flex. Maybe a more rigid tower set-up would help. Especially if the mounts were tied to the structure of each side of the hull and also tied under the floor to each other. Major job.

Unless this all of a sudden becomes a structural failure / safety issue, lets say, with hulls breaking in half, my opinion is that the manufacturer will define the concern as being cosmetic, and offer-up with a windshield solution.

[tn_viper]

Well it sounds like I need to find someone at Moomba to help me and see about getting it fixed. If that someone is on this board please let me know. The dealer I purchased the boat from is no longer in business. So need some help here.

Thanks
Ronnie

[Retirement Fund]

Hey Ronnie,

I believe the closet dealer to our area is Rusty Biddle at Knoxville Watersports. He's really good and might be able to help you out. The phone number to his store is 865-539-0589 and his cell is 865-300-9002. Hope that helps.

Kevin

[k.glavan]

I am getting in late with this discussion. I noticed that the windshield gap when on the trailer is wider than on the water. I recently found a small crack in my gelcoat and was wondering is this hull flex/spread could be the culprit.

[BensonWdby]

It is interesting that I had just started reviewing the history on this to see if I had missed any comments.
So far we have discovered that there is not a Hull Warranty transfer process if you are not original owner. We have also discovered that this is a bigger problem than the manufacturer would like to admit and that the problem really does not appear to be the windshield, but the hull.

In addition, we have discovered that although certain members of the manufacturers staff monitor and participate on this board, and are extremely helpful in most cases, they are generally tight lipped about this particular problem.

My guess is that there are some topics they have been instructed to not get into in public.

Right now this is more of an annoyance than anything. However the prospect of flexing fiberglass over time and the resulting structural damage is a source of some concern.

Dave

[Catdog1]

Dave,

Yeah, putting the blind eye to it.

[BensonWdby]

Corporate response on this issue is a concern, but we have to remember that this is probably a corporate position and not harass the staff that is so helpful on this board. I personally find their participation very helpful.

I don't know how many boats they sell a year, but if this were a widespread problem and they were forced to handle this somehow it could force them out of business if it turrned out to be a hull defect. Chance are there is nothing that can be done to fix all the hulls that might be involved that would allow them to still stay in business.

It would be nice if they would perhaps provide a little aftermarket kit that could be applied to the window channels that would allow for adjustment of the window to compensate for the drift.

Dave

[k.glavan]

The windshield is not my major concern. I am worried about the integrity of the hull in the long run. Also, as I mentioned on a previous post, I have a crack in my gelcoat and am wondering if the hull flex and spread is the culprit.

[ProXman]

My boat is put away for the winter but one possible solution for identifying if it is the hull or not (if you have a tower) would be placing a pull type scale between the tower uprights (starboard and port) low to the hull. Tensioning it to approximately 25 pounds and watching it as you drive around through different conditions. I am assuming that the force causing the spread is quite great and the scale will not have an impact on the spread. Because of this the travel of the scale will be equal to the spread of the hull. One other problem is bounce in the rope holding the scale. A piece of "c" channel or heavy cardboard bent into a C should take care of this problem allowing the rope and scale to be supported continuously from port to starboard.

Note: the scale would have to be installed while the boat is in its normal position (on the trailer, on a lift). Then left in place with the boat in its normal position to allow for the hull to return back to see if the scale is still at the 25 pounds or if the rope or knots have stretched.

I understand that I may have confused many of you but hopefully someone understands my method. Come spring I will have to try this out myself on a Mobius, although is sounds like it is mostly outback owners that are having this problem.

[55ChevyBrad]

As someone who has been planning on buying a new Moomba in January I must say I am scared to death about hull integrity after watching this thread.

Are most moomba owners not experiencing this and happy with their boats????????????????

[moombamania]

55Chevy,

We have a 2000 Moomba Outback L/S which we bought new. We have not experienced this windshield issue at all.

If we have our walkthru closed and just blast our way through rough water you can see the slightest expansion between the flip window and captains windshield...But I have experinced this on every boat we have ever owned.

Buy with confidence, and enjoy...

[SMUMATTMAN]

We have an 03' Mobius and have not had any issues with the window spread or hull. We are 100% please with the boat and can't wait for Spring so we can get back out there.

[james yarosz]

I bought an 03 outback ls last may. we put 83 hours on it last summer and the windshield gap stayed the same.after reading about the "problem" i started to keep an eye on it,and the gap was the same while on the trailer,on the lift or in the water.

[LKGBOUND]

WITH AN '04 OUTBACK ON ORDER, AND JUST READING ABOUT THIS ISSUE TODAY, I MUST SAY I AM A LITTLE MORE CONCERNED. IS THERE ANYONE WITH AN '03 THAT HAS HAD PROBLEMS?? I AM WONDERING IF MOOMBA CHANGING THE WINDSHIELD DESIGN FIXED THE PROBLEM........OR AT LEAST FIXED THE SYMPTOM.

KGR

[BLKOUTLS]

55chevy,lkgbound the windshield was changed after 02 to a new 1 piece design with a much heavier rail and design. the pre 03 had a 2 piece rail on top and not the sturdiest locks for the flip window.you can feel and see the difference. skiers choice brian,matt b,rick t and the people on and off this board are great to deal with and i wouldnt hesitate to buy another moomba because of these guys and the company they stand behind. by the way i have an 02 outbkls with over 215 hrs been great . i have a number of upgrades on my 02 because i liked the look but due to some freaky circumstances "dont even want to go there "i had to have my windshield replaced so having had both on the same boat pre03 and 03++ i wouldnt give it second thought. worry about the new boards and skis you going to want .

chris

[Catdog1]

Plus, according to a tech rep at moomba who I met at a boat show, the hull design was improved via an additional or beefed-up stringer.

He tried first to explain that the windshield frame was stronger, but after being pressed, admitted that the hull was the root cause... and that the re-setting of the existing windshield ( or as a worse case, the retrofit of a new windshield on an earlier boat ) was a way at acheiving a low cost solution at dealer sites.

If I had to wind back the clock and do it over, I would make the same purchase of the 99 outback. I also would not hesitate on a new boat. The problem has turned out to be minor. The spread hasn't grown. The windshield hasn't fallen through.

The only problem I've heard of that really bothers me, on this whole board for the last 10 months, is the platform / transom problems limited to certain early Kamberra's.

[98viper]

This is not a structural problem! I also owned a 1999 Mobius for 3 years and experienced this exact problem within the first 2 months of use. I live on a VERY rough lake and my boats take a ponding. Anyway, all the dealership had to do was to loosing the screws that secure the windshield, and re-insert them using lock-tight. The cause for this movement is partially a poor design that has been corrected in later models along with the loosing on the screws. Adjust, use lock-tight and re-tighten and you will be fine.

[Catdog1]

We rigged up some yardsticks across the walk-thru section and found a miserable amount of hull flex. Clearly structural.

A moomba factory person with whom we and our dealer discussed this issue at the Richmond boat show 2 years ago admitted the windshield fix was a way of improving the situation without fixing the underlying problem.

Later boats apparently have an extra stringer to strengthen this area. Good news for us is that the windshield has not fallen through. Bad news is that the gelcoat is cracked over a wide area where the torsion occurs.

[Keaton]

I have a 03 mobius and have had problems from the get go. The main one was gelcoat cracks but Iv also notice the windshield spead on mine getting bigger the last 3 months and have found more gelcoat cracks. Iv talked to my dealer and have an oppintment to have it fixed but Im concerned that this fix they will do will only be temporary. Theres no dougt in my mind that moomba has hull flex problems. Iv done my own research. Im sure thats what causes these gelcoat cracks. It sure would be nice to hear from some "higher-ups" of moomba to share whats really going on and share a permenant fix.