Outback DD Balast Set Up [Archive]

Klipper

07-12-2010, 06:37 PM

Hi Everyone,

About 2 weeks ago I got hooked on wakesurfing. I am typically a skier, I wakeboard a bit but loved surfing!

I have bought a board and a line but need to upgrade my ballast in order to get surfing properly. I have the factory ballast system in my boat (400 LBs under the seat). I would like to upgrade in order to wakesurf without having 10 people in the boat!

I'm looking to use Fatsacs, I called them today and they told me I needed 5 707's!!! That seems like overkill!!

From the Outback DD owners experience, what works best in that boat?

I was thinking one 707 where the seat goes and one on the surf side with the factory ballast bag in the bow.

I just want to make sure I make the right decisions if I'm gonna buy bags, I want them to be the right ones.

Thanks for all your feedback.

Karl

Waynes345

07-12-2010, 07:21 PM

I've got a '99 OB, no factory ballast and no wake plate. I've been playing around with weight for the last month and a half. It's very dependent on people in the boat as well, but if it's just me, my wife and a kid or two, I have two 400 lb bags in place of the rear seat. I have a 650 along side the engine on the surf side and a 350 on top of that. I run about 10 mph and if I need to clean the wave up a little, I stand up and move to the center or slightly left. Very finnicky but we've gotten pretty good at moving people around to clean it up. If we have a couple extra people I leave the 350 out and position the extra folks along the doghouse or on the side. None of my friends (I/O and outboard owners) can believe the work we go through to get that wave, but we'll run around for two or three hours having a blast. I'm free riding now too, but no where near as well as the kids. I'm just challenged to find the sweet spot and hold it. People follow us around watching. There aren't many inboards on our lake and only one other surfer, though all he has to do in his Wakesetter is push a button. Have fun and let us know how you do.

Mikey

07-12-2010, 09:44 PM

I'm still a newbie at this but i purchased,2 540's using one across back to side desired and one along side ,using wakeplate slightly,speed at 9.8 and this works not too bad.Use all available people weight and we manage.
I also run a Outback DD 07.

psycho-heico

07-12-2010, 11:22 PM

I too live in Calgary..And also have 07 Outback DD, which lakes have you been surfing...I just got a 750 lber for the back and the other alone the doghouse...have not tried it yet ...hopefully next week..

cachais

07-13-2010, 08:51 AM

This is great stuff. I have an 08 DD and was told by my dealer I could not surf off of it so to hear that you guys are doing it gives me hope. My kids are dying to try it. Mikey and psycho-heico keep us posted on your success so I know what to buy.

moombadaze

07-13-2010, 09:21 AM

Ed's setup would work for any Outback from 03 and on up--I have seen that wave it makes and its nice for skiboat

kaneboats

07-13-2010, 10:43 AM

This wave was behind my 2000 Outback LS with about 1200 lbs of ballast:

bbyquist

07-13-2010, 11:40 AM

Last weekend we had on separate occasions 2 mastercrafts, 1 malibu and an epic (all V-drives and less than 3 years old or so) following us around to watch us surf out of our 07 LS with 1200lbs of ballast and 4 people in the boat. It can definitely be done out of a DD.

Kaneboats, that wake looks great! I need to work on making our pocket longer so it looks like some of these pics I'm seeing.

psycho-heico

07-13-2010, 12:18 PM

Sorry I mean Kaneboats...Where was your bag placemant and the weight of the bags...Great wake for a DD....

papou

07-13-2010, 03:50 PM

Here is a pic of me surfing 2 people in the boat wake plate all the way up 10 MPH not much of a wake but it was still fun.

Klipper

07-13-2010, 05:47 PM

Thanks for all the tips.

So if I get 2 Fat Sacs W V707's (750lbs) and put one where the seat goes and one of the surf side of the engine, I will have a nice big wake!

Will that work well? Or are there any other recommendations?

Thanks.

Klipper

07-13-2010, 07:04 PM

Ed, you seem to be the expert on this subject.

What bags are you using in your boat?

Klipper

07-13-2010, 07:08 PM

I'm worried that the 707 will not fit very well on the surf side of the boat beside the engine cover. Have you had any experience with that set up?

Klipper

07-13-2010, 07:18 PM

Fly High Pro X Series Fat Sac™ - W707

kaneboats

07-14-2010, 01:55 AM

Sorry I mean Kaneboats...Where was your bag placemant and the weight of the bags...Great wake for a DD....

I used to have 3 crappy 400's. One was in the trunk- this was the 2000 O/B LS so it had the gas tank under the seat and a huge storage area behind the seat. One was behind the engine cover in front of the seat-- on the floor. The third one ran along the port side next to the engine cover on the floor. No wakeplate on that boat either.

psycho-heico

07-14-2010, 03:00 PM

Waynes345

07-14-2010, 03:15 PM

I read your set up...Just got my UPS package with my new sac and Tsunami pump today...So it will be the 750 along the back with my sun deck up...Then the 400lb stock bag (that came with boat) along the doghouse...Did you have any weight up front?? or does the fact that our DD motor location create enough weight towards the bow...This is my first summer with the boat (bought it in late Sept) so all the advice you guys have is awesome...Needless to say just learning to surf and doing it on CWB ride..Will get a new board next year...Thanks...Heico

I think you'll find that you'll want more weight on the surf side. The weight on the side seems to give the wave more height. You might me able to accomplish it with people on the side or the doghouse. On my boat, you can watch the wave change as you move weight. Experimentation pays off. Have fun.

kaneboats

07-14-2010, 03:25 PM

Agree. To the extent the bag is shorter than the width of the boat, pull it over to the surf side before filling. Then make a T with the lenghtwise bag extending along the floor by the doghouse. Post your results so we can all share your joy!

Klipper

07-14-2010, 05:30 PM

Has anybody tried puting the Fly High W707 (750lbs) on the surfside beside the engine?

psycho-heico

07-14-2010, 06:31 PM

Great advice guys i will try and post pics in a week or so...Thanks again...

Klipper

07-14-2010, 07:07 PM

Thanks for the advise Ed,

I just want to make sure that I'm gettting the correct bags for my boat. The W707's run about $250 each up here in Canada and I want to make sure I'm doing the right thig before dropping $500 on bags.

I've never done this before, it's all new to me.

kaneboats

07-14-2010, 07:23 PM

I don't know of anyone who tried to squeeze a 750 in there. YOu don't want it to push the clamshell over and bend up your hinges. Keep an eye on it. You may not be able to fill it all the way. On the other hand, it should lean away from the engine and toward the side of the boat. Let us know how it works.

Edit: Also, don't ever be afraid of getting "stuck" with a 750. You can always sell it to a v-drive guy looking to upgrade.

Mikey

07-14-2010, 09:21 PM

As Ed mentioned above about using garbage cans,last season i was useing Huge tupperware containers and made it work. How well is question able but just the same it got us started and now i'm trying new things and already want a bigger sac to compliment the 2 540's i have.
All of this is done putting the seat up in the sundeck location.

cachais

07-14-2010, 09:26 PM

Just saw this, don't know if it is what you are looking for but someone posted two fly high pro x series 750lbs for $250 on wakeworld classifieds.
http://www.wakeworld.com/classifields/viewlisting.php?view=882

viking

07-18-2010, 01:23 AM

I bought a 705 (rear seat sac 650lbs) and a 713 (v-drive sac 400lbs). I use the rear seat sac under the seat in the sun deck position and throw the v-drive sac next to the motor on the surf side. I then use the factory 370lber that was under the rear seat to throw up in front of the motor in the bow walkway.

Only been out once this year (that's another story :) ) but seems to work. Just need to fine tune the wake. I'm new to all of it too!

Sled491

07-21-2010, 12:08 AM

Last weekend we ran a 600 across the back and a 540 lounge down the side. If I went up front it made the wake clean up real nice. I have a 07 Outback. My wife and kids all had great rides and the wall was as tall as I think your gonna get in an Outback.

I was about to try for myself the same 600 across the back and an 800 hun down the side. I surf goofy so I was going to wait, never got to go back out as the DNR shut our lake down due to high water levels.

I think a few hundred pounds up front will make a big difference also.

psycho-heico

07-21-2010, 10:52 PM

Did you manage to snap any pics...I would like to see what you produced..How close was the water to your gas cap or rub rail...

Sled491

07-21-2010, 11:08 PM

Never taken anything from the water side looking in. I will tell you that some have claimed to darn near have there rub rail at the water line. I know for a fact that mine has neverbeen anywhere close to that.

I will try to get some video posted asap. When my son is running the wall looks to be about 3 ft tall. Our problem is the pocket or sweet spot is very short.

NCSUmoomba

07-22-2010, 11:04 AM

Most of the guys are right on. Trust Ed, he knows what he is talking about. I run the 750# sac beside my engine cover to surf and it is not a big deal. It does push on the cover a bit, but no harm done yet, and my cover goes all the way down to the floor. The newer ones have a rigid base that goes up 8 inches or so. I also put about 800# more in the rear, and the wake is really nice. As Ed said, the rubrail will be down on the water almost. Just be careful turning, the boat has the response of a battleship loaded like that.

Waynes345

07-22-2010, 12:10 PM

Just be careful turning, the boat has the response of a battleship loaded like that.

I couldn't agree more, it's like turning an iceberg. Careful slowing down quick or you'll be bailing as well. Sometimes turning towards the wave, I'll have water running over the rear corner of the boat and the trick is to know how far you can go before it comes in.

kaneboats

07-22-2010, 12:42 PM

This reminded me of something that came up at the Sinclair Jam. Look for the poll in the wakesurfing forum. This should be interesting.

Klipper

08-09-2010, 03:20 PM

Here is the result with the 2 Fat Sac 750lbs. They fit perfectly!!

Thanks for all the help!

viking

08-09-2010, 03:34 PM

Hey klipper,
can you get a shot of where the rubrail is in relation to the waterline?
I have tried surfing (once) behind my DD and have yet to have the time to really play with the sacs and weight. Plan on it before the summer is out though. Seemed like the pocket was extremely close to the boat.

I have a 700lb in rear, 400lb on side, stock 370lber to put in the walkway (possibly) and all the peeps in the boat.

Klipper

08-09-2010, 03:55 PM

This is the best pic i have for waterline.... Not sure if it helps.

Canuckle Head

08-09-2010, 04:56 PM

Lose the gloves dude. This isn't slalom skiing...... ;)

Klipper

08-09-2010, 05:34 PM

This is why I had the gloves on dude....... rope is hard on the hands.

Canuckle Head

08-09-2010, 07:18 PM

Didn't realize you were using a ski rope and handle which is waaay dangerous! You really need to get a proper rope. Especially if you're going to tow with your kids. Even at 10mph if you fall into that handle or worse if your kid gets caught up in it.

Here is a rope I bought from Overtons:
http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww30/wedeh/Watersports/BradyDad-InArms.jpg?t=1281395696
http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww30/wedeh/Watersports/BradyDad-OnBoard.jpg?t=1281396015
http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww30/wedeh/Watersports/RileyDad-OnBoard1.jpg?t=1281395696

Much easier on the hands and no way to get caught up in it. And here I thought you were trying to make a fashion statement! :)

moombabound

08-10-2010, 12:52 PM

Surfed two days ago behind a DD. Malibu Response LX. 3 adults + 2 teens onboard. No ballast, but it had the huge advantage of having the Power Wedge, which claims something like 1200 lbs of downforce. I could just barely go ropeless. but who needs to? We swung wide and slashed at the wake, taking air; cut back and forth like skiing to (try to) take air (with numerous wipe-outs). Had a good time and actually more variety than I do with my Outback V. Just suggesting that if you bought a ski boat, you'll never get that feeling of freedom surfing hands free 10 feet back like some do with their 23' boats and a cement mixer equivalent of ballast.

We also spoke to another family whose teen is a competitive skier, so they bought an Outback DD two months ago. They were surfing with factory ballast and smiles were everywhere. They had 7 people onboard and everyone had a place to sit comfortably.

The punch line: Could SC (and I missed that enhancement wish-list thread awhile back) figure out a method of non-intrusive downforce, like the Malibu Power Wedge or Centurion Switch Blade? For DD and V. Makes a huge difference, and for the DD's means people can be seated. Ya, ya, patent infringement. Get on with it or risk losing market share.

jessman

08-10-2010, 06:53 PM

Klipper, does that 750lb bag fit below your seat when it is in the upright position. How long does it take to fill each bag. (what kind of pump do you have)

thanks

Sled491

08-10-2010, 09:32 PM

We have run as much as 1800lbs in our Outback DD. I doubt anything you will ever do will lenghten the pocket on an Outback, but we can all surf without the rope from my 7 yr old daughter who needs no ballast to me who needs it all :)

kaneboats

08-11-2010, 09:58 AM

Sled, do you have a wakeplate. My Outback didn't have it. I could put a little weight up front- usually people -- but that was about it. My 2000 would take rollers over the bow very easily.

Sled491

08-11-2010, 11:16 PM

KB no wake plate. When we ordered our boat it was for a hard core skiing only family. Who know :). I get what your saying about the water over the bow, but we are on a smallish lake so we can pretty much avoid the problem if we watch how we drive.

I have sat way up front while my son drove for my wife and noticed a nice difference in the length of the pocket with the extra 180 up front. I'm thinking of getting a 100lb cube to stick on the floor up front for future endevors.

kaneboats

08-12-2010, 11:39 AM

Man, I posted a thingy for free a couple weeks ago that would have fit under your front seats and added 100#. Nobody responded so I think I tossed it.

Sled491

08-12-2010, 10:21 PM

No probs, nothing will fit under my seats anyways.

Salyers

08-12-2010, 10:40 PM

The 09 Mobius LS works great with the 2 750's in an L shape on the back seat and by engine. I have the G3 system so that ads another 450ish to the back since we fill both tanks. Have the 370 in ski locker with additional 370 in walkway as far up as we can get it. Also have about 250 in back storage area. Nice wave and pocket extended by noticeable amount both feel and look when we added the 2nd 370 bag. Takes about 15-20min for 2 people to set up with 2 Tsunami pumps.

Still not a V-drive but I think it will handle my skill level for the next 2yrs or so. Will take some pics when we're out weekend after next.

I think it was around the magical 2 inch mark on the rub rail. Might be a little bit less than that. Hadn't taken any water over back yet, but we've been really careful. I am sure our time will come!

viking

08-12-2010, 11:30 PM

Salyers

08-13-2010, 06:43 AM

No. They don't bother with checking weight on our lake. They are big on life jackets and throw cushions and DUI. Haven't heard of a ticket for weight at our lake yet.

We also stay on the unpopulated part of the lake so we haven't recieved any complaints about the wake yet. The local jet skiers love it! No really excited about that and you can't chase them down to yell at them with all that weight;)

Sled491

08-13-2010, 08:46 AM

Gotta love those jet skiers :(

deepcove

08-17-2010, 11:59 PM

04 Mobius LS

Rear stock tank full
Front locker sac half full
750 lbs on surf side beside motor
250 lbs between motor and rear seat
540 lbs on top of 750 lbs sac kinda angle onto back seat
9.8 mph
wake plate just under 1/2
picture shows wake on drivers side which is not as nice as passenger side

Sled491

08-18-2010, 09:04 PM

Sure is clean looking and long. Doesn't look all that tall though. Is it, or is it just the angle we see in the pics

viking

08-19-2010, 12:22 AM

Went out last night. Here's a picture of my ballast (poor man's plumbed in set-up I'll post in a separate thread). I have a 700lb in back and 400lb along the side. Another 220lbs in people.

2nd time surfing and i can get slack in the rope but cannot for the life of me free ride? I tend to get really close to the back of the boat and when I back off i slowly fall out of the pocket. I'm thinking I need more weight up front to lengthen it? Wouldn't hurt to get another 500 or so lbs of peeps or ballast on the port side either?

Pointers?

bbyquist

08-19-2010, 01:38 AM

Last weekend we surfed with:
stock front locker full
stock rear left tank full
550# in left side of ski locker
750# surside beside the motor
550# between front locker and the surfside 750
4 people in the boat

I must admit, too many bags but damn was it fun! Yet I still cant ride out the 360...

I'll try to get some pics of the wake next time out

Sled491

08-19-2010, 08:28 AM

viking

08-19-2010, 12:30 PM

Viking with the Outback don't ecpect a long pocket. I find my self almost always right at the platform. Also I find it helps the push to always have a dlight turn into the rider going. My kids don't need it but I do. Careful too much turn will push you right into the platform :)

Thanks Sled! I had a first time driver too so that didn't help. I told him to turn slightly but that could have been the problem as I think he did it too much and I was constantly trying to ensure I didn't hit the platform. I think a little more weight on port side and up front and a good driver and I'll get it :)

Sled491

08-19-2010, 11:20 PM

Ya the driver makes all the difference. Even worse than a newbie driver is one that thinks they know what there doing. My wife has been just killing me on the surf board. Kind of turns a fun time into a real bummer. I end up just switching everything for the regular footed riders and driving for them all day. Not worth the stress, especially when a day on the lake is supposed to be fun for everyone.

tylerlakemoomba

08-22-2010, 10:36 PM

We surfed at least 3 times a week this summer. I had plenty of people to use as ballast and we constantly had them switching sides for the riders. One OPPPPPPS that I had was having too many people on the right side that the gas cap was under water. Luckily no water in the gas but the boat did stall out. So be careful and watch the gas cap for the riders that use that side. Other than that my 04 Outback has a great wake for surfing when the weight is settled right. Also the driver makes the difference

psycho-heico

08-23-2010, 04:13 PM

Can you take some pics of how you have those bags plumbed..I have the excact set up as you in an 07 outback...I get the onboard ballast to fill my 400lber but use a tsunami pump to fill the 750...Which way is it that you have set up...With this weight plus 3 adults and 3 kids in the boat i can free ride...I am using a CWB ride which I believe is a great board for a DD set up..I also have a 220lber friend and 100 lb of kids on the corner and two moms about 240 lbs of weight up front...

Sled491

08-23-2010, 10:33 PM

I took some pics this sunday of my Outback with my ballast set up. I took a few from the water so you get the idea. We all had great rides, but for me it still could use a bit more push and I don't care what you say that darn pocket is short.

I'll post the pics a little later on.

viking

08-24-2010, 12:06 AM

Can you take some pics of how you have those bags plumbed..I have the excact set up as you in an 07 outback......

I will. Been slammed at work so not been out much. I've taken a few and going out this weekend so I'll snap some more. When I finally get some time I'll get them posted. Essentially what I did was put a T under the rear ski locker and plumb 2 fill lines (one for the rear sack and one for the side sack). I upgraded my rear to the "rear seat sac" and have it in all the time. I then can lay a 400lb sack down the side and plug in the quick fitting and fill the 2nd sack off the same factory pump. I have 2 valves in the ski locker to close or open each line. Works pretty slick for a "poor man's system" :) I have my stock 300lb bag that came with the factory system and going to use it in front of the doghouse when not enough people weight. I'll just fill that with my tsunami. I have the CWB Ride too.

Sled491

08-24-2010, 08:01 AM

Those bags are full full full. Not sure what else to do, thats like I said 800 across the back and 540 down the side. Keep in mind my crew are very light.

Like I said before I tried the 800 down the side tight to the back and the 600 across the back tight to the 800, that seemed to work a bit better.

deepcove

08-25-2010, 01:19 AM

Your 600 lbs across the back is countering your 800 lbs side weight. You should try to put the 600 on a 45 degree angle from the back seat onto the 800 side sack. Also if you do not have a wake plate you need weight up front. DD's are tricky to weight properly cuase you have substancial centre weight from the motor. You want your boat to list big time!!!!

viking

08-25-2010, 03:31 PM

One major difference. Looks like there's a cooler full of "barley ballast) sitting on the port side as well :)

kaneboats

08-26-2010, 02:27 PM

I think that thing was pretty empty by that time of the day.

kaneboats

08-27-2010, 01:05 PM

Gee, you hit the guy up for one beer then he complains when he and his wife take your last 6!

Sled491

08-28-2010, 10:38 AM

Well, I will have to play some more this weekend. For my wife and kids the wake is very good and they can surf to there ability all day. For me everyonce and a while I have to reach down and yank the rope and get back into the pocket. Keep in mind that even with all those kids jumping around they only come to the weight of 1 adult.

Not sure how I could put the 600 at a 45 as the bag just fits back there to begin with. I'm definately going to add weight up front though. Last weekend with everyone hanging out back the bow was way up in the air.

Ed yes you got some kind of list going there. It is hard to believe that I'm using your old system and not getting near that angle?

Waynes345

08-30-2010, 06:18 PM

We continue to play with the weight in our older OB DD. This past Saturday evening, we had our best wave of the summer. We had 800 across the back, 650 along the surf side, 300 on the seat in front on the surf side, two kids sitting on the surf side (another 250-300 depending on the combo), my wife ~ 140 in the observers seat and my 250 standing in the middle once at speed ~ 9.5 mph. With my 90 lb daughter back there, she had about 15' in surf-able length and a four foot wave. My son at 160 had the same height, but less length as did his 170 lb buddy. Still plenty of surf room. My 250 brings the sweet spot down to a very small area just behind the swim deck. I don't try to toss the rope anymore as every couple minutes I lose the wave so I just pull myself back. Either I need to get better or lose 50 lbs as Bensonwdby did. We're having a blast none the less and the kids rarely want to do anything other than surf. At least they are starting to take responsibility for bags, pumps, fly-high pole, boards, etc.

Sled491

08-30-2010, 09:21 PM

God looking wave. This weekend I ran a 540 right from the very back up along the motor. I then tucked the 800 tight to it along the back. I then half filled my 600 and stuck it on top of the 540. Man let me tell you, don't turn quick to the port side with that set up :)

My crew is a handful of light weight kids and my wife and sister in law who don't add up to many of the bigger guys on the boards here :D

Wave was awsum, with the best length we've seen yet. I would say the height was a respectible 24"+. My wife was able to ride all the way throught the shallow spot we have that usually flattens the wave enough to end your ride.

Speed 10 mph for wife and kids, 10.3 for me

kaneboats

08-31-2010, 10:58 AM

Waynes, those kids look better and better. Can tell you guys have been doing a lot of surfing. Good for you!

djprice35

04-22-2011, 09:57 AM

Glad I came across this thread.. Just purchased my first moomba!! Picked up a 2005 outback dd (140hrs) in almost brand new shape this week. Turn 30 next Saturday and hope to be freezing my butt off in lake hartwell trying out the new boat. Talked to wakemakers.com yesterday and they suggested 2 750lbs Fly Highs and a tsunami pump. They had 2 sacs on the blem/sale list so it saved me 60 bucks... Hope this setup works and I'll post some pics after I go out.

E4NASH

05-08-2011, 12:50 AM

I'm looking to start surfing as well. My LS has the 400# under the seat and a 370# in the ski locker. I'm trying to decide between the twin 400# or twin 750# package from wakemakers. The reason I'm questioning the 750# is the size. We generally have between 4 and 8 people in the boat when we go. On the days we have 4 the twin 750's won't be that much of a problem but on those days when we have 8 those 750's would take up a ton of room.

So with the twin 400's I would put 400 along the motor box....fill the 400 under the seat...and then lay the other 400 at a 45 degree angle on top of the seat and the other 400 along the surf side. That should be decent size right? Or should I just "go big or go home" with the 750's?

harmsway

05-08-2011, 10:49 AM

I would go with the 750's, when you have 8 people in the boat you may not need the other 750, because of the weight of the other people. I recently purchased 2 750's and I have only had to use 1 of them and my hard tank in the back. We only have 3 people in the boat when we go out and our boat pushes a nice surf wave.

deepcove

05-08-2011, 11:39 PM

E4NASH

I have the same hull as you. You want a 750 beside the motor box and the 400 on top at an angle as you described. or alternatively a 750 on top that you would not need to fill all the way. Fill your rear tank full and your front bag half full. Put your wake plate around half way, 9.8 mph.......enjoy the wave......it will have more push on the passenger side, but thats the only side that matters

E4NASH

05-09-2011, 12:02 PM