Integrated Bow Sac install

[newty]

Since I've installed my IBS system I've had a lot of "how to" questions from folks on the boards here. So I figured I'd go ahead and post up a detailed post on the subject. Hope this answers any questions you guys have.

Parts you need.
IBS bag
1 3/4" 12v empty/discharge pump
3 Fly High 3/4" Flow-Rite Quick Release Connect W736
3 Fly High 3/4" Elbow Flow-Rite Quick Release Connector W742
1 3/4" through hull fitting
1 3/4" spring check (must be spring, not ball or swing checks)
1 3/4" barbed 90/elbow
10 stainless hose clamps 1/2" to 1 1/4"
2 3/4" female thread by 3/4" barbed
2 3/4" male thread by 3/4 barbed
8' of 3/4" ballast hose depending on the way you route everything. Measure, measure, measure!
1 role of teflon tape
1 roll of good heavy electrical tape. I use it to wrap the hose clamps up really well so they don't rub on the bags

Tools you need.
Drill
3/4" hole saw
1 1/4" hole saw
I like to use a nut driver for the hose clamps because a flat head screwdriver works better at stabbing yourself in the hand and I've stabbed my hand enough.
At least 3 beers.

First mark and drill your holes, 1 1/4" in the floor and 3/4" in the hull.
One thing I noticed is that depending on the day the boat was built the two ballast thru-hulls in the back are going to be spaced differently. So measure the distance between the two back ones and drill your new one the same spacing from the old front to match the spacing on the rear. Make sense?
Now I drilled the hole in the floor behind the stainless angle under the passenger bow seat to keep things tight. If you don't want to drill a hole and you have room in your boat where the battery cables and such come through the floor just run the hose there.
Slide the bow bag back a little to access the front port. For some reason my floor sac fittings were not glued like the rear sacs were from the factory so it spun right out. Results may vary.:D Depending on the orientation of the bag make sure the port is on top, meaning it would make it a vent.
Attatch the hose to the quick connect and install it on the bag.

[newty]

Now you want to slide the floor sack back into position and feed the hose up through either the newly drilled hole, or through the battery cable chase. Make sure you have enough slack as not to kink the hose when the bag is full.
Making sure you have a few inches of slack cut the hose and install the barbed 90/elbow with a hose clamp. Clamp the remaining hose to the other end of the barb and run it to area where the sac is.
The reason for the elbow is to keep the hose as close to the floor as possible so when the bag is being emptied the remaining water in this leg of the bag will drain back to the floor sack. this alleviates the need for 2 drain pumps.
Install your IBS and measure the hose needed to make the connection.
Next I I installed the two female threaded barbs on the pump and laid it about where I wanted it. Cut the hose accordingly and make the connections.
Run the hose from the pump to your new through hull and make that connection.
Here is the tricky part. Install the two male threaded by barbed to the spring check. You need to remove the floor sac hose from the through hull and install the spring check with the arrow going out of the boat. Now you will need a short hose to make the connection from the spring check to the hull again. This does two things:
1. It keeps air from filling the floor sack on the road.
2. It it creates just enough back pressure to divert the pressure from the full floor sack to the IBS in the bow.
If you want to fill just the floor sac you will need to keep a close eye on it as not to overflow into the IBS.
When both sacs are full the water will overflow out of the new through hull.
The empty pump of the floor sac can easily overcome the spring check so no worries there.
Next I ran the wires from the pump to the ballast switch panel and tied the wires into the empty side of the front ballast switch. So now when flip the switch to empty the front ballast it kicks on the IBS empty pump as well.
They both take approx the same amount of time to empty so it wont hurt anything. These pumps are ok to run dry for a while anyway.
I have considered adding a 4th switch like Brainrinse but for now it works really well. I've run it this way for one full season with no issues.
The only other thing I've considered changing is adding a vent to the nose plug on the IBS to help vent air and tie it into the drain line from the empty pump on the IBS.
This will work on the OBV, LSV and the XLV.
Hope this help guys!:)

[kaneboats]

Looks fantastic. Thanks for the effort here. Need a picture of your surf wake in this thread running this full.

[newty]

You bet! for refference I'm 6' on the dark side. Bruce is 5'9" ish on the regular side. Sorry for the poor quality but you get the idea!

[mmandley]

Great write up bro. This looks pretty much exactly how i got mine. Wonder how that happened LOL. :cool:

I did run a vent off my Nose bag and Y connected it to the drain.

[badasshybrid]

Good clean job Newty.

[morgan040]

Wow this is awesome!! I really wanna do this but I'm not sure I have the guts to start cutting like that!! I need to just try it!!

[squeeg333]

Thanks man. Solid write up. I'm looking forward to this mod for sure!! Not too tough, and it works just about the way I thought it would.
And look, no sewing machine required!!

[newty]

And look, no sewing machine required!!

Yea how about that!:p

[brain_rinse]

Great writeup, Newty! This is a really great way to get a bow sac automated without a lot of additional cost and work.

[sandm]

nice writeup, but I can't help but think of something totally different when you say "ibs" ;)

[newty]

Irritable Ballast System?:p

[kaneboats]

That's what I'm suffering from. Need a dose of Irritrol to fix my front bloating.

[bamaboy2006]

I was wondering where you put the check valve on the vent/drain line. Is it before or after the Y fitting?

[bamaboy2006]

I was also wondering if yall were using some kind of strainer to keep stuff from getting in the pumps?

[newty]

The check is from the floor sac. So there is no Y fitting. Just inline from the empty pump to the hull drain.
I yanked my strainer out. Unless you fill in shallow water or over weed beds you'll be fine with out.

[bamaboy2006]

The check is from the floor sac. So there is no Y fitting. Just inline from the empty pump to the hull drain.
I yanked my strainer out. Unless you fill in shallow water or over weed beds you'll be fine with out.

ok. I am using separate pumps to fill and empty so I thought I needed a y for the drain and vent. Can I just run a drain line and skip the vent?

[morgan040]

to drain your bags completely, Just turn up the wakeplate and go about 10mph so your nose is way up in the air, it will force all the water to the rear and out the drain pump, and what do you know, ALL the water is gone.

[mofierka]

Hey Newty,
When wakesurfing, what do you find to be the best balance of weight in your boat? What sacs are filled? Always like do hear how others set up thier wake.
Thanks,
Mofierka

[newty]

Usually full front, full bow, and full surf side. But last weekend during our regular side sesh the goofy side bag started filling and HOLY HELL that wake got huge, but it was hard to keep clean. I'm going to fool around a little with that scenario a little more next trip and see what I find out.

[TL7]

I'm late to the thread, but considering adding the IBS. One issue I have is when my locker bag is full, the locker lid doesn't close completely. I have to drain the sac a bit for it to close. How does this affect the front sac? I suppose you just wait until the IBS is filled, then hit the empty switch so the lid will close?

Also, how do you know when to stop filling the IBS? Do the front cushions pop up or do you have the timers set for the whole setup?

[TL7]

Thanks - makes perfect sense now!

[saskie99]

Sorry way way late to this tread, but I am considering this upgrade. How much weight realistically do you think you are getting into the bow sac? Also for wake boarding did it make the a big difference. I can see how it would for surfing.

How much long to fill the system for a surf? Just curious as I am not to worried about time as the boat can sit at the dock and fill while we get ready!

[brain_rinse]

Sorry way way late to this tread, but I am considering this upgrade. How much weight realistically do you think you are getting into the bow sac? Also for wake boarding did it make the a big difference. I can see how it would for surfing.

How much long to fill the system for a surf? Just curious as I am not to worried about time as the boat can sit at the dock and fill while we get ready!
Definitely helps the surf wave but IMO the wakeboard wake is where it really shines. I have one pump per bag and the seats start popping up shortly after the ski locker door does. So I'd say right at 400 lbs is a good estimate.

[saskie99]

Well that is very cool, and I am going to be doing this upgrade very soon.

This may sound like a dumb question but can I tee off a pump and sprinkler valve off the engine coolant intake? Our lake is very small and I am never filling ballast while underway. Normally I take the boat off of the lift and tie it to the dock and let it fill while we get ready.

I would do this rather than cut another hole in the boat. My idea would be to use the rule pump to fill the 750s in the rear and the 1200 tsunami to fill the ski locker and bow ballast.

[brain_rinse]

Well that is very cool, and I am going to be doing this upgrade very soon.

This may sound like a dumb question but can I tee off a pump and sprinkler valve off the engine coolant intake? Our lake is very small and I am never filling ballast while underway. Normally I take the boat off of the lift and tie it to the dock and let it fill while we get ready.

I would do this rather than cut another hole in the boat. My idea would be to use the rule pump to fill the 750s in the rear and the 1200 tsunami to fill the ski locker and bow ballast.I wouldn't do it. A better solution would be to tee off the existing ballast intake and put your extra pump there. No additional holes and no putting your cooling system at risk.

[saskie99]

thanks for the advice, I was just worried that the 3/4 thru hull wouldn't support all the filling at once

[brain_rinse]

It may throttle things a little. It's an easy swap to a 1" thru hull if you don't mind replacing the inline valve.

[kaneboats]

Newty posted on replacing the elbow above the stock intake with a "T" and adding a second pump. I copied him and added a second Rule pump but also built a new manifold with 2 inlets and 3 outlets. The stock intake seems to handle it OK. With an Irritrol valve on the line going to my 750 surf bag it fills in 7.5 min. I see nothing at all wrong with just using a "T" and adding a pump. I did add a second shut off valve though for obvious safety reasons.

Pics show the stock elbow and then Newty's mod and my mod- good luck!

[saskie99]

i was away last night so I never got to see these pics. I think I can handle this. I just gotta get my hand on a rule pump and away we go. Thanks for all you help!

[kaneboats]

Any pump will work. The tsunamis are cheap and do a great job.

[saskyrider]

Ya i used my new Tsunami pump last weekend for the first time.... WOW!! does that thing rock!!

I have a bow sac on the way from Newty and will be following this procedure to get it hooked in..

Geoff

[Jet]

I am going to add a auto ballast system in my supra comp this winter and a bow sac 400 lbs and a 750 in the rear. Im worried about 1-thing?? Are the vent line heights (where they exit the boat) that much of a big deal? I have heard if they aren't the right height they wont fill or drain properly. Something to worry over?? Jet

[jmvotto]

Any pump will work. The tsunamis are cheap and do a great job.

Pat are you using the 1200 or the 800?

[newty]

Jet are you referring to the vented loops or the thru-hull fittings?
The thru-hull needs to be higher than the highest point of the bag or the water will run out the hull, for example if your surfing and the boat is tipped over and the thru-hull is below the highest point of the bag full water will eventually leak out. What wake makers has suggested to remedy this problem is to run the vent from the right bag to the left side of the boat and the right to the left so when the boat is tipped over the water has to exit the high side of the boat. That only happens when the pump is on.

As far as the vented loops it only needs to be just a bit higher than the waterline so the loop can vent when filling is complete.

Make sense?

[kaneboats]

Pat are you using the 1200 or the 800?

I have 2 of the Rule 2000 pumps. They are called 2000 but I think they do about what a Tsunami 1200 does.

[jmvotto]

my bad, i though that was a tsunami in the pick.

joe

[Canuckle Head]

I'm going the impellar pump route and I plan on having a seperate pump for the IBS and the center locker. My ballast system will have 4 pumps (Johnson Ultra's) and will pump and drain through the intake valves. I plan on removing the stock intake and upgrading it to 1" and also adding a seperate 1" intake. Each intake will have a T-valve and will feed 2 pumps. I have most of the parts ready but am waiting on my GIII switch. I figure I'll have my LED install complete before I get this one done.

[brain_rinse]

I'm going the impellar pump route and I plan on having a seperate pump for the IBS and the center locker. My ballast system will have 4 pumps (Johnson Ultra's) and will pump and drain through the intake valves. I plan on removing the stock intake and upgrading it to 1" and also adding a seperate 1" intake. Each intake will have a T-valve and will feed 2 pumps. I have most of the parts ready but am waiting on my GIII switch. I figure I'll have my LED install complete before I get this one done.
Sounds like a great setup to me. Have you thought about how you will drain both legs of the bow sac?

[Canuckle Head]

Sounds like a great setup to me. Have you thought about how you will drain both legs of the bow sac?

Howdy Brain,

After seeing 2007OutbackV's setup with the Simer pumps, I am thinking that the pump will be powerful enough to syphon the bag flat and it won't be an issue. (Valve check on the overflow lines).

The other way around it may be to use a "Y" fitting and split the fill line to both ends of the bag?

I think the worst case scenario would be that you would have to lift one of the bow cushions and raise the one end of the bag in the air to allow the water to properly drain.

I have to do this now on my locker bag in order to get it completely empty anyway and once it's converted over to the impeller system I am hoping that this process will go away.

Whadya think?

[newty]

Pics updated as per a couple requests.

[lsvboombox]

Howdy Brain,

After seeing 2007OutbackV's setup with the Simer pumps, I am thinking that the pump will be powerful enough to syphon the bag flat and it won't be an issue. (Valve check on the overflow lines).

The other way around it may be to use a "Y" fitting and split the fill line to both ends of the bag?

I think the worst case scenario would be that you would have to lift one of the bow cushions and raise the one end of the bag in the air to allow the water to properly drain.

I have to do this now on my locker bag in order to get it completely empty anyway and once it's converted over to the impeller system I am hoping that this process will go away.

Whadya think?

One leg will work with the check valves. I ended up putting a 1 inch Y(not a t) and hooking into both legs.

The jabscos sucked every drop of water out after i installed the check vallves.

[guinsha54]

I think I am going to give this a shot in my 05 LSV, however my center bag doesn't have a top vent, it only has fill and drain holes at one end. My current plan to handle this is to insert a Y or T fitting on the current fill line that will branch off to the new IBS and center sacs. Any ideas on if this should still work?

[jmvotto]

I think I am going to give this a shot in my 05 LSV, however my center bag doesn't have a top vent, it only has fill and drain holes at one end. My current plan to handle this is to insert a Y or T fitting on the current fill line that will branch off to the new IBS and center sacs. Any ideas on if this should still work?

Use a Y fitting, it seems to split the water more evenly unless at absolute end of a run.

Add a vent to the center bag and tie in to the drain drain port.

Add a vent is easy .

https://forum.moomba.com/showthread.php?14056-Adding-a-vent-to-a-two-port-ballat-bag/page2&highlight=vent

[guinsha54]

Use a Y fitting, it seems to split the water more evenly unless at absolute end of a run.

Add a vent to the center bag and tie in to the drain drain port.

Add a vent is easy .

https://forum.moomba.com/showthread.php?14056-Adding-a-vent-to-a-two-port-ballat-bag/page2&highlight=vent

Thanks for the link on adding the vent, looks very simple.

Also just so I'm clear, use a Y fitting from the new vent/fill line from center sac to drain on each leg of the IBS and that eliminates the need for the additional through hull drain and pump all together?

[jmvotto]

sounds right, but i actually plumbed in two drain pumps in my set up,

LSVboombox i believe broke ground on this so i will defered to him, but that seems right.

[lsvboombox]

Thanks for the link on adding the vent, looks very simple.

Also just so I'm clear, use a Y fitting from the new vent/fill line from center sac to drain on each leg of the IBS and that eliminates the need for the additional through hull drain and pump all together?

I would split the line right at your current vent/thru hull. Then hook in one side to the center sac and one to the bow sac. I ended up installing a new vent for the ibs as its really and easy job

[guinsha54]

I would split the line right at your current vent/thru hull. Then hook in one side to the center sac and one to the bow sac. I ended up installing a new vent for the ibs as its really and easy job

Not sure if we are on the same page... Are you talking about an actual vent line or drain?

[jmvotto]

i was talking about drain line, i think lsvboombox was talking about vent line...

[guinsha54]

i was talking about drain line, i think lsvboombox was talking about vent line...

Thats what I thought, either way I am about to put my order in with wakemakers. The plan is to add a new outlet from the center sac and split it with a Y to each leg of the IBS, if it drains back into the center sac great, if not I will add some drain pumps.

I know Newty recommended specifically a spring check valve, but I assume the check valve wakemakers sells will work for this right?

[Cigars n scotch]

I have a simple, but may be considered odd, question. If you have two rear sacs, a ski locker (or walkthrough sac) and this IBS sac under the bow seats where in the world are you guys storing all of your equipment (vests, ropes, bumpers, etc) Just curious where all you store your stuff when a lot of storage space is being taken up by fat sacs.

Not that I don't love the idea of the IBS but that's where I keep extra USCG vests for those on my boat just hanging out who don't board. It's a question I think of when I see folks taking their boats to the max with sacs and stuff. (not that you are, please don't take it like I'm directing this at anyone). Just curious that's all.

[saskie99]

My boat is stored on a boat lift all summer so I dont carry bumpers as all my friends docks have bumpers on them. Extra few lifejackets are stored under the rear seats. I am not offended at all hahahaah I do try to take my ballast to the max! I keep my rope on top of one of my rear bags same with my wake surf rope.
We are on a small lake so there is no need for storage. As I just drop back to the cottage and pick up what ever I need.
My new reversible system is going to be installed tomorrow and I am even looking a "piggy back system" to add another sac for surfing and one more 400 for on top of the ski locker.
If it is really rough I do not fill it all the way up because you will take waves over the bow. hahahaha

[KG's Supra24]

I have 16 vests on top of a 750 on one side and the other side have floating stuff on top of 1100.

Ropes and related in rope locker (really a great feature more boats should have). Towels, anchor and misc in rear facing seat. Bags and sandals in observer seat storage. Bow cover and extra ropes in bow. Bouys in rear seat. pump in small cooler. Small cooler occasionally used for trash

I guess i'm one of the few that actually use the cooler. most of my crew usually knows not to show up with hands full of unneeded stuff. I'm not a big proponent of lunch on the boat so food is minimal.

Storage is one of the benefits to a big boat :D

ooh, and rope box doubles as trash can.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk

[Cigars n scotch]

Saskie you have it ideal, I guess my question pertains more to those who have to tow to their riding spots and carry gear. KG, you sound like you have it all thought of, I think I'm going to have to rethink the way I have my stuff stored. No lunch on the boat, damn, don't you get hungry? Well I guess it all depends on the way your boarding days are spent. For me and my crew and the other crew members with their own boats it's an all day thing, so lunch is a must. Plus we raft up at lunch for a few hours while the Wally's tear up the water.

[jpetty3023]

Rope box? KG is this something like the EZ Net or a feature on those super sick supra's I've been dreaming about.

I've got a water proof boat bag I keep my ropes in under bow cushions along with anchor, dock ropes, and tow rope just in case. Extra life vests to.

Personal clothing, towels, etc go under observer seat along with tool bag (not that I know how to fix anything without the help of forum). I use the cooler also for its intended purpose.

Vests go on top of my newly installed 750's along with occasional (forgive me now) tube. Food and or trash go under seats behind captains chair along with whatever other junk might find its way on boat. I try not to be to anal about bringing unneeded stuff aboard but most of the time I don't do real well in that area.

Of course more room would be better but we make do and I've not yet said to myself "I NEED more room". Not out loud to my wife anyways....

I've got 4 fat sacs with bags and tsunami pump that I'll leave in rear storage also

Sent from my iPhone's cooler than your droid utilizing Tapatalk

[KG's Supra24]

Cigars, we have a subway and 2 resorts (one diner style, the other a little fancier) all within a 5 minute boat ride of our normal cove. I try to convince everyone we are best of to hit one of those up. No such thing as 5 dollar footlong, though, ha. Often we hit one for lunch and another for dinner unless we cook out back on land.

Jason, it is a cubby in the center locker hatch. Wood box above engine accessed from stern, platform basically. Ive only seen it on 24s of my body style, I believe. Ropes in waterproof bag huh? Lol

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[dusty2221]

I'm just trying to find a deal on an IBS sack no one needs anymore!

[jpetty3023]

"Ropes in waterproof bag huh? Lol"

lmao.....yeah so if we don't use them all I don't have to take them all out of boat to air dry

[dusty2221]

Lol, wait...wut?

[KG's Supra24]

Hmmmm ...

I got nothing, lol. You stumped me there

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[jpetty3023]

Y'all got big arse 24's but I'm just floating on a lil ol 21.6. I keep the ropes in the bow, sometimes take a roller, and this way all the ropes I don't use stay dry and organized in one of those marine grade type bags with a handle. C'mon I can't be the only one here. I like a tidy boat!

[dusty2221]

Petty, that shi cray!

Its a rope!

[jpetty3023]

I'm gonna have to take a pic of my set up now so you dudes don't think I've gone crazy. Where y'all keep all your ropes?

You done got me in a pickle Cigar!!

[KG's Supra24]

I'm not sure a pic is the answer :p

But out of curiosity, would that camera have a waterproof housing?

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[jpetty3023]

14001

Smackity smack

[dusty2221]

This is the best I could find for now of the 24 rear rope locker. The square in blue opens from the back, so when standing on the platform you can get gear out of there. At any given point I have 3 ski ropes, 2 surf ropes, a dock line or 2, and how ever many empty cans we have. I am really hoping this feature gets added back to the 242 soon.....

14004

Click the pic

[bzubke1]

That's tight! I always wondered what that compartment was for.

[KG's Supra24]

Doesn't appear anyone else uses a waterproof bag for the their watersports gear Jason ....

[jpetty3023]

No it sure doesn't, and if they do they ain't owning up to it now that's for sure
14009

[newty]

I know Newty recommended specifically a spring check valve, but I assume the check valve wakemakers sells will work for this right?

Guinsha, The spring check is to help divert the flow up to the IBS. A regular check will allow the water from the floor sac to just flow out the through-hull, rather than pushing it up to the IBS.

[Cigars n scotch]

Dude petty, I wasn't going to say anything about your waterproof bag for ropes, I didn't have too. Dusty and KG jumped all over that one.

I can only imagine what that looks like. You pulling a rope out of a waterproof bag, on a BOAT, on the WATER, and then using the rope, IN THE WATER.

Priceless.

That little locker is cool. And I can see how you store so much now, you've got a much bigger boat than my 21v.

[Cigars n scotch]

Oh and it seems like I need to move to a lake like KG and Saskie!

[guinsha54]

Guinsha, The spring check is to help divert the flow up to the IBS. A regular check will allow the water from the floor sac to just flow out the through-hull, rather than pushing it up to the IBS.

Ok thanks, unfortunately I already ordered 3 of the check valves from wakemakers along with all the other parts I needed to install the new ibs and also decided to go ahead and vent my other other bags with Y fittings and check valves and add a piggy back off the back 750s for wakesurfing.

I guess I will give it a try with the regular check valve and see if it works if not I'll pick up a spring check.

[jmvotto]

Ok thanks, unfortunately I already ordered 3 of the check valves from wakemakers along with all the other parts I needed to install the new ibs and also decided to go ahead and vent my other other bags with Y fittings and check valves and add a piggy back off the back 750s for wakesurfing.

I guess I will give it a try with the regular check valve and see if it works if not I'll pick up a spring check.

If you don't use the three check valves I will buy them from you if they are one inch, I assume the 12's vent with one inch.

[guinsha54]

If you don't use the three check valves I will buy them from you if they are one inch, I assume the 12's vent with one inch.

I know I will be using atleast two of them, and sorry they are 3/4" but if I dont use the 3rd one your more than welcome to it.

[jmvotto]

I guess I will have to call wakemakers, you get the 25 buck flyhigh barbed one or the generoic 13.00 brand?

[kaneboats]

I got all 5 of my check valves at Lowes. Just PVC stuff. Then I glued the threaded connectors in each end to use the type of hose barb fitting I wanted to for each application.

[guinsha54]

Went with the cheaper one for 13.