Would you, or have you owned a KIA

[RobertJ]

The family needs a new mini-van (5 people plus dog and friends) and we are leaning towards an '07 Kia Sedona EX with 13,000 miles. It still has 3+ years and 47,000 miles on the factory warranty. I would love to buy American or the VW Tourag but American mini-vans don't cut it and the Tourag is a little more then I want to spend.

Thanks in advance for your input.

[Razzman]

Never owned one but i will say KIA has come a long way and their quality is on par with anyone elses if not more in some cases.

[maxpower220]

If you do buy Korean, you really should check out the price of a new one. You MAY find that you can buy new for almost as cheap as a used one.

Because I am a true American and the economy is still struggling, I encourage you to shop and buy an American product.

[pickle311]

I don't trust Koreans. I worked for a Korean company, one of the largest companies in the world, for a few years and saw some very questionable business paractices. They have a different way of doing things than we do and it's very hard for me to support them after having to do some of the things I was instructed to. That's all I'm going to say about that.
Buy American if you can, but also avoid Government Motors.

[Razzman]

I don't trust Koreans. I worked for a Korean company, one of the largest companies in the world, for a few years and saw some very questionable business paractices. They have a different way of doing things than we do and it's very hard for me to support them after having to do some of the things I was instructed to.

What like Toyota? One companies policies make all the apples bad? Look around, you'll find many US companies with just as shady business practices i'm sure, I know i used to work for one, a very big one that affects a lot of you every day.


Buy American if you can, but also avoid Government Motors.

Sorry but that's an oxymoron if i ever heard one! None of our so called "American Made" us vehicles are all made in the US. Parts are outsourced from all over the world and assembled here. Same exact thing the foreign makers do and most have plants in the US employing US workers including KIA in West Point, Georgia as of 3/1/2010.

As far as "Government Motors" goes, if it wasn't for the government GM would no longer exist and thousands would be unemployed and our economy would be even worse. Or it would be owned by a foreign consortium. What's worse?

Not arguing, just bring up some points to consider is all.

[snowboardcorey]

Never owned a Kia but my wife has a Hyundai Sonota and so far it has been awesome. It was a 2009 lease return we bought with 20,000 miles on it, for the money we just couldnt find a better car.

[maxpower220]

None of our so called "American Made" us vehicles are all made in the US. Parts are outsourced from all over the world and assembled here. Same exact thing the foreign makers do and most have plants in the US employing US workers including KIA in West Point, Georgia as of 3/1/2010.

It really isn't about where it is made. All companies outsource to the lowest price in order to get the vehicle made at a price that Americans are willing to pay. Ford and Mexico, GM and Canada. However, ALL profits (if there are any) go back to the country of origin. That means Ford, GM, etc have money going into the U.S. economy and Toyota,Honda, etc had theirs going into their economy.
At the grassroots, yes, any car company keeps the economy going by employing salesman, staff, etc. The local dealer isn't the only economy that we (Americans) have to worry about.

Good luck with buying a new car, I always hate the experience. Most car dealers are still "dealing" in the 20th century. There is too much information available on the internet to "haggle", the ball is definately not in the dealer's court anymore.

[c.rix]

It really isn't about where it is made. All companies outsource to the lowest price in order to get the vehicle made at a price that Americans are willing to pay. Ford and Mexico, GM and Canada. However, ALL profits (if there are any) go back to the country of origin. That means Ford, GM, etc have money going into the U.S. economy and Toyota,Honda, etc had theirs going into their economy.
At the grassroots, yes, any car company keeps the economy going by employing salesman, staff, etc. The local dealer isn't the only economy that we (Americans) have to worry about.

Good luck with buying a new car, I always hate the experience. Most car dealers are still "dealing" in the 20th century. There is too much information available on the internet to "haggle", the ball is definately not in the dealer's court anymore.



Thanks maxpower!!!! I worked at ford assembly in st paul for 5 years got told they were going to one shift I left a couple years ago went back to school cant land another decent job due to the economy even after school... So after searching for months ended up back working assembly at ford for about half of what I made before :(

BUY AMERICAN !!! support the american economy

PS I still get my discount for friends AKA moomba friends so if any of you want a ford tow vehicle I may be able to save ya a few hundrend on your next purchase :)

[mmandley]

I worked for Holmes Tuttle Ford in Tucson AZ in the early 90s right out of HS. I always liked the F150 4x4 Super Cab Short Bed. So i have one now and absolutely love the truck.

I always liked the look of the Ranger, and it drove nice but never towed with one working at the dealer. The thing i didn't like about the Ford Ranger is its actually made by Mazda. Ford owns Mazda. Ford Ranger and the Mazda B2200 are the same truck with a few different interchangeable items, Grill, Bumpers, Interior trim, stuff like that.

For instance the Mazda MX6 is actually made by Ford, and the Ford Probe was made by Mazda, interesting which car is still sold at the dealer today.

As for new cars i just inked a deal on Claudia's new car. I think its a pretty pimp ride. Its a 09 Chevy Equinox Sport. It has every option on the book. Heated leather power seats, Nav, Pioneer stereo with sub woofer, AWD, 265hp V6, 18 polished aluminum wheels, this thing is just loaded to the hilt.

Got it for 8K off the sticker, and then got 0% Financing and 7year 75K warranty on drive train and all electronics in the car with no deductible.

I was hesitant to deal with GM but the local GM here was like dealing with AWS to be honest. They were nice and not pushy and at first we looked at the 10s but they said have you though about a 09 and we said the only one you got is the white one we bought and we didn't like the sticker so they asked what price i wanted and i gave them a number and we left that night with the car. Also got 8500 for her Dodge Magnum and that was a POS car. I wouldn't count GM or any American car maker out of the game yet, read the reviews, look at the trends, American cars have been really improving in the last 10 years where as Foreign cars have been slipping, thats what happens, when your the best you get lazy, but there is always plenty of people on your heals looking to be the best.

I think i am supporting my local economy just fine. Bought a house in 07, a new boat in 09, a new car in 10 and got my plan for the truck in 12 LOL.

[Ian Brantford]

Unfortunately, my most recent buy american experience is with a Ford truck...

Ouch. It's gotta hurt when such a big purchase lets you down.


perhaps the F-150 is built much better than the Ranger?

Most certainly. However, how good it is overall is something that changes over time. It's worthwhile to check on market research about reliability on a year-by-year basis, rather than relying just on individual feedback.


Ranger seems to have an issue with parts falling off the engine

Again: ouch!


, but I bought it cause it had a 5600 lb towing capacity

There is a difference between rated towing capacity and actually being a good idea to tow that much. The towing capacity simply means that it you pull that much, the truck won't immediately break apart.


and most importantly - it fit in the garage.

That is indeed a deal-breaker for many full-sized trucks, or even mid-sized trucks with full-length beds.


I think when it comes to my next truck, it's gonna have a bow tie or I'm turning Japanese...

Check out the Honda Ridgeline. Seriously. There are very good reasons why it keeps winning so many awards, despite its mediocre sales. Just about every Ridgeline owner (including me) initially took a hissy fit over how it couldn't possibly be a real truck... only to later find out that it's the best midsized truck by a wide margin, and also fills the role of a full-sized truck for many purposes. It's not a rock-crawling off-roader, but it's made to do the job of a truck, not a Jeep.

The Ridgeline can tow 5,000 lbs. That's what it's rated for and that's what it can actually do. I tow my XLV with it. It handles very well. Many other RL owners have towed at the limit for tens of thousands of miles.

The Ridgeline isn't the best choice if you also want to tow a trailer that has lots of wind resistance (even if it's lightweight).

Most people shopping for a mid-sized truck and who do their homework boil it down to a short list of the Tacoma and Ridgeline. A ten-minute test drive (especially on a slippery or bumpy road) quickly favours the RL, due to superior ride and sure-footedness.

The Ridgeline is designed and built in the U.S.

Owner's forum: http://www.ridgelineownersclub.com/forums . It's a very friendly place. There are many former owners of other truck models there with whom to compare notes.


(although I haven't completely ruled out an F-150 - yet).
I'd put the F-150 on the short list with the Tundra for full-sized trucks... and pretty much no others.

[mmandley]

I agree with putting the F150 on the short list for truck buys. Its really a great truck and i drove Chevy and Dodge before i bought mine new in 06.

I am leaning towards the new 2010 Dodge because its a realy sharp looking truck, and the new Inline Diesel is really great. Also helps i can get there fully loaded version for 56K vs the Chevy for 60K and the Ford for 63K.

I get a factory discounts on any truck i buy so that helps, plus having mine paid off makes a nice down payment but i am waiting till i can get the new truck with my trade and down payment under 35K.

[Razzman]

Supposedly GM is coming out with a smaller version of the Duramax for the 1/2 ton vehicles. It will be rated at 550 lbs torque versus the 650 of the larger motor. Either way 550 lbs of torque will pull any boat no problem.

To me that's worth looking at. I personally am not a fan of most of the 2500 4x4 crowd. The Dodges are huge as are the Fords. The Ford F250/350's are ugly imo. The GM's are good looking but again huge and expensive. Show me a good looking 1500 with a deisel and i'm all over it.

[snowboardcorey]

I'd give a heads up for the F-150. I have an 07' Crew Cab Short Box and its awesome. I use it to tow boats, haul dirt/rocks and as my general commuter. I've never had any experience with the Ranger so I can't compare.

FWIW on midsize pickups my dad has had 3 Dodge Dakotas and while I've never been wowed by them they have always run forever. I bought his 98' Dakota and drove that for a couple of years, I always wanted it to die so I could buy a full size but it just kept on going, leaky diffrential and all.

[mmandley]

Supposedly GM is coming out with a smaller version of the Duramax for the 1/2 ton vehicles. It will be rated at 550 lbs torque versus the 650 of the larger motor. Either way 550 lbs of torque will pull any boat no problem.

To me that's worth looking at. I personally am not a fan of most of the 2500 4x4 crowd. The Dodges are huge as are the Fords. The Ford F250/350's are ugly imo. The GM's are good looking but again huge and expensive. Show me a good looking 1500 with a diesel and i'm all over it.

GM is trying to do this and its been out in the European market for years but talking with Chevy dealer here when we bought Claudia's, because of course they wanted my truck so i would by a new Diesel, the biggest hold up is the Gov says Diesels in trucks have to be a larger trucks.

The 1500, F150 type trucks are considered passenger vehicles and get certain grants from the Gov and if the big 3 drop this type of engine in those trucks they will lose the Gov money they receive and this is the only reason stopping it.

So the same Gov wanting us to push Green is stopping us from having Diesels in the #1 consumer type trucks. This is why you only see a Diesel option in 250, 2500 series and up trucks.

Cars are different because they are in a completely different gov classification.

[c.rix]

Ed - We build the all the rangers and mazda b series in st paul now, but back when you got yours it could have been a new jersey truck they had issues and are now closed

The ranger has a pretty good rep so it surprises me that you have had many issues with it but like mandley said your probably better off with a f 150 they tow great and have plenty of power I have had my 03 fx4 since new and have had 0 problems I tow my OBV sled trailers car trailers etc all the time mine fits in a normal sized garage just fine

My buddy has a 07 hd 1500 chev and thats a nice truck too you cant go wrong with one of those either

And the new dodge !!!! I love the looks of those they did a great job re designing their trucks

And the best of all any of them will tow the wheels off a ridgeline too :)

[Ian Brantford]

Ya know Ian, just a couple of days ago, I saw a Ridgeline go whizzing past me and I really liked the looks of it.

Well, let the Honda dealer know that his brand won the beauty contest and give him some flowers. :-) I didn't buy mine for looks. I tell my friends that the 2009 model is only 80% as ugly as the previous one.


Looked up the towing capacity and I kinda got dishearted at the fact that it only had about a 5,000 lb limit, (but it sure looks like it would fit in my garage).

Do you actually need to tow more than 5000 lbs? If so, get a full-sized truck.

At the ROC (Ridgeline Owner's Club), we have compared notes on many mid-sized trucks. The consensus is that 5000 lbs is the practical limit (for handling) for the best of them, regardless of what is claimed on paper. For the Ranger, I wouldn't tow anywhere near that much.


[...]
Wonder if they let you tow a boat as part of the test ride :)

I think that one of the ROC members got the dealer to allow that. He simply insisted that checking the towing capability was essential before a purchase.


[...]
My 2004 Ranger with the V6, 4.0L, Auto Tranny with 4:10 rear end and 4X4 with towing package, actually does a good job of towing the OBV around town, but I would never use it for a three hour haul.

Exactly. That 5600-lb tow rating has not resulted in giving you the confidence that you should have in real life, even when towing much less weight. The 4x4 Ranger of that year is about 3500 lbs -- a true mid-sized truck. The Tacoma and Ridgeline are "upper mid-sized", around 4500 lbs, almost as much as full-sized trucks from the 1990's. They are commensurately scaled up in terms of body/frame strength, powertrain and handling. Plus, they have less much tendency for essential parts to fall off.


[...]newest $4500 tranny is still under warranty.

"newest". Nice.

Obligatory Kia content: I looked up the Kia Sedona's reliability report on Consumer Reports. It shows that the 2006 model update cured a great many mechanical problems. Hoever, there are still serious electrical defects, as well as a lot of minor engine and fuel system problems. Its overall reliability result is "subpar" (their second-worst rating). I would avoid this model.

[maxpower220]

The Tacoma and Ridgeline are "upper mid-sized", around 4500 lbs, almost as much as full-sized trucks from the 1990's. They are commensurately scaled up in terms of body/frame strength, powertrain and handling. Plus, they have less much tendency for essential parts to fall off.

So you are saying that your new truck has the same towing technology as a 90's model American full size truck. Just think of how great the Ridgeline will be in 10-15 more years.

The Ridgeline is a nice vehicle, especially as most people tow less than 1% of the time. However, I would not want to be in one during an emergency stop from 55 mph with an XLV behind it. I have had a "Mr Toad's Wild Ride" with my 02 Avalanche and it was no fun at all. I feel sure that had I been in a truck that was smaller or lighter (the Avalanche is a beast), the truck and boat would have flipped.

Picture from I-10 at Slidell, LA.

[Ian Brantford]

So you are saying that your new truck has the same towing technology as a 90's model American full size truck.

No, I am saying that it has similar capability (as the base models) from that era. The technology is quite different. Vehicle weight is simply a ballpark indicator. Actual handling is the real benchmark. Sitting right behind my Ridgeline is my father's (barely used now) 1997 Silverado. I have used both trucks on the same day to check handling while towing my XLV. They are comparable.

Honda doesn't presently have a full-sized pick-up to protect by artificially limiting the mid-sized model. Thus, the Ridgeline has a full 4' between the wheel wells for those building supply runs. Capacity: 1500 lbs total, 1100 in the bed. Handling is still great when loaded.


Just think of how great the Ridgeline will be in 10-15 more years.

I was not making any predictions about where a manufacturer will take a particular model. However, it is very common for successive generations to increase in size. Most full-sized 4x4 trucks from the 1990's were around 5000 lbs. Now they are around 6,000. Most small/mid-sized trucks were around 3,000, whereas now they are 3500-4500 lbs. Toyota split their T100 (an overall mid-sized truck with full-size box) into the Tacoma and Tundra models.


The Ridgeline is a nice vehicle, especially as most people tow less than 1% of the time.

The Ridgeline is called the "Swiss Army Knife of trucks" by many owners. One of the things that it is specifically targetted at is towing for the 85% of the truck market that tows 5000 lbs or less. It does this very well, for most trailers. It is not great with large flat-faced trailers, regardless of weight.

At least your assumptions are simply ill-informed, and not in the "hissy fit" class like mine were at first. :-) Just like the Moomba brand, the Ridgeline is underestimated by many who aren't in the know. Its on-line community is very similar in tone to the one here.


However, I would not want to be in one during an emergency stop from 55 mph with an XLV behind it. I have had a "Mr Toad's Wild Ride" with my 02 Avalanche and it was no fun at all.

Sorry about your unpleasant experience.

When no one else was around, I tested this myself with my Ridgeline as much as I dared. This was after checking that I had mobile phone coverage... just in case a call for help was required. I figured that I might as well find out what the score was. I was unable to get it to do anything scary, on both paved and bumpy gravel surfaces.

The Ridgeline has the following design differences from your Avalanche that could come into play in an emergency:

- Independent rear suspension.
- Stability control.
- Full-time 4WD, with primarily FWD.

The suspension is probably the most important. All else being equal, it's never going to be a physically strong as a solid axle, but it's a LOT more stable when the chips are down. The three items above also help immensely in non-towing scenarios when there is poor traction. Say good-bye to nasty axle hop on bumpy curves. Say good-bye to fishtailing in snow or rain. It can be driven like a big AWD sports sedan.

The current generation of Avalanche has a stability control system, as do many vehicles now (mandatory in 2012 in the U.S.). This might have helped keep your Avalanche pointed in the same direction as your front wheels, though that's no guarantee that the wild ride would have been completely averted.


I feel sure that had I been in a truck that was smaller or lighter (the Avalanche is a beast), the truck and boat would have flipped.

Just like Ed G, you are seeing the difference between on-paper ratings and real-life capability. "American" (your truck was built in Mexico, wasn't it?) makers' specs seem to be signed off by their marketeers. Honda's specs are signed off by their engineers, while their marketeers seem to go an on acid trip after the initial designs are done. Have you seen the Ridgeline's few commercials? One's got a lumberjack in outer space! At least the public knows that the Avalanche exists and fits a certain niche very well.

To sum up:
1. Expectations for domestic brands' towing and hauling can be set like our dads probably taught us: by taking the on-paper specs, interpreting them with a nod and a wink, and reducing them by some safety margin that one has to guess. Thus, there are generations of domestic truck owners who aren't comfortable with anything less than a monster truck even when towing a modest load.
2. With Honda, the expectations can be set by the on-paper specs. They don't look as impressive, but they are accurate. The safety margins are above the specs. They are for owners who are more concerned about the task than the image.


Picture from I-10 at Slidell, LA.
<averts eyes>

Kia content: The Sportage rates very well at CR, starting with the 2006 model.

[RobertJ]

Hey guys thanks for the feedback and the overall discussion. A double dose of thanks to those with KIA's or knowledge of people with KIA's or Hyndai's (sp?).

I knew this would bring some good discussion about how "American" you are based on what you purchase. Well we are "American" to the core and we decided to go with the KIA. This was not a choice taken lightly but one with a lot of thought and reviewing your comments and my personal situation and yes the impact on our Country (as insignificant as it may seem , big picture). I am proud to live in a Country that allows us to have the freedoms to buy things that best fit our personal needs as opposed to "nationalized choices" made by our government. (Don't get me started on Health Care)

One post that I want to respond to is the one about a members bad taste while working for a Korean Company. If you hold to that logic you could say that Enron's actions mean that all Company's in Texas are bad and not to be trusted. I now that is not the case nor is it fair to paint a broad stroke about Korean Companys based on only a small experience.

[Suprahunter]

The early KIAs were a real pos. I am sure they have gotten better. I have worked on a few of them the drive trains are good and that's what they cover with the 100k warranty. The parts are very expensive and most have the come from the dealer. My advice is to talk to your mechanic before you buy any brand. He is the one that will know potential problems with the car.
Keep in mind there is safty in numbers. When there are a lot of units on the road parts and service are more numerous. You dont want to end up with a couple hundred mile tow to get to the nearest dealer for repair.

[pickle311]

What like Toyota? One companies policies make all the apples bad? Look around, you'll find many US companies with just as shady business practices i'm sure, I know i used to work for one, a very big one that affects a lot of you every day.



Sorry but that's an oxymoron if i ever heard one! None of our so called "American Made" us vehicles are all made in the US. Parts are outsourced from all over the world and assembled here. Same exact thing the foreign makers do and most have plants in the US employing US workers including KIA in West Point, Georgia as of 3/1/2010.

As far as "Government Motors" goes, if it wasn't for the government GM would no longer exist and thousands would be unemployed and our economy would be even worse. Or it would be owned by a foreign consortium. What's worse?

Not arguing, just bring up some points to consider is all.


I never said the companies policies. It's culture based. They have a different way of thinking and a different set of morals than most of us here in the US. I can guarantee that everyone here owns something made by the company I worked for weather you know it or not. They weren't the only Koreans I worked with. We had hundreds of suppliers and vendors that were Korean companies. They all operated the same and were all very difficult to deal with.

As far as GM, the government should not have stepped in. It's their own fault for getting in the situation they were in. Yes people would have lost their jobs, but so did I. No one stepped up to bail me out and I came out of it even better. If GM were smart, they would have cleaned out the union employees that helped run them into the ground. They aren't good for anything, they are over paid and under worked and lack any valuable skills. Sorry, but the manufacturing line has been dummied down to where a monkey could do it.
How would GM folding have hurt the enconomy more? The truth is, other companies would have absorbed the business that GM would have lost. Those companies would have then shown growth and had to expand and hire. Who do you think would have had the best shot at those new positions? Probably the experienced people that just left GM.
Sorry, but I'm not into socialism and the government has no business getting involved in corporations. Sorry about the thread jack, now back on topic.

[maxpower220]

As far as GM, the government should not have stepped in. It's their own fault for getting in the situation they were in. Yes people would have lost their jobs, but so did I. No one stepped up to bail me out and I came out of it even better. If GM were smart, they would have cleaned out the union employees that helped run them into the ground. They aren't good for anything, they are over paid and under worked and lack any valuable skills. Sorry, but the manufacturing line has been dummied down to where a monkey could do it.
How would GM folding have hurt the enconomy more? The truth is, other companies would have absorbed the business that GM would have lost. Those companies would have then shown growth and had to expand and hire. Who do you think would have had the best shot at those new positions? Probably the experienced people that just left GM.
Sorry, but I'm not into socialism and the government has no business getting involved in corporations. Sorry about the thread jack, now back on topic.

Now you are referring to capitalism, I seem to remember something about that a while back. If only we, as a society, valued self-reliance and accepted responsibility for making mistakes, what a place that would be.

[zegm]

- Independent rear suspension.
- Stability control.
- Full-time 4WD, with primarily FWD.

The suspension is probably the most important. All else being equal, it's never going to be a physically strong as a solid axle, but it's a LOT more stable when the chips are down. The three items above also help immensely in non-towing scenarios when there is poor traction. Say good-bye to nasty axle hop on bumpy curves. Say good-bye to fishtailing in snow or rain. It can be driven like a big AWD sports sedan.




OK having owned several Chevys and now a Touareg "AWD" as you want to call it with stability control I must say a lot of times axle hop is a more a function of shocks and springs and some of the Avalanches (Z71's) come with Bilsteins (the best) and all come with coil springs! Most of the axle hop on solid rear axle trucks was due to torque reaction winding up the rear "leaf" springs which the avalance doesn't have, it has coils with multi link rear suspension keeping the "solid" axle from "winding up" and hopping but actually allowing it to move around a good bit to absorb bumps where as leaf springs don't allow a rear axle to move much. Great for heavy loads though! Now AWD is awesome but sending too much to the front wheels is bad as you are expecting a tire to pull and steer at the same time creating more heat and friction with the potential for the tire to break free easier as it is experiencing loads in more than one direction. I know people who love front wheel drive cars always want to argue this one but face it there are No front wheel drive race cars. Chrysler tried it and it failed. But you can check out the successful history of Audi AWD race cars but most of the torque was to the rear wheels just like the current Porsche Turbo (oh and my independent suspended Touareg).

[Sled491]

Man did we get off topic. My mom and dad are hard core ford people. I can't count how many they have owed over the years, but always a ford.

Well last year my mom wanted a little running around car, she choose a KIA. I have to say, not a bad car. Very roomy cabin and decent fit and finish. I don't think you will be disappointed.

Now onto some of the other things discussed. Rumor has it Dodge will take the 5 cyl Mercedes Diesel currently in the sprinter and plop it into a 1500 sized Vehicle.

We have had 2500 Diesels for the last 10 yrs. A dodge and a ford. Personally I prefer the Dodge but both are formidable vehicles. I don't mean to seem snoobish on this, but Tacomas, Rangers, Ridglines, S10's Canyons are all just toy trucks. I owned 4 toyota Tacoma's before moving to the Ford F150 SB 4x4. I will never buy another toyota, but I sure do miss that ford!

[zegm]

Hey haven't I seen the 3.5L mercedes diesel in some of the Jeeps! I know I saw one in Tampa!

[Sled491]

really? You should look into that, maybe get a super secret photo out of one.

[zegm]

Sled,

I saw it, was either the liberty or the new fugly boxy looking one but it had 3.5L diesel (and I know it is the Mercedes engine). Now you know they don't allow my 5.0L diesel to come to the US anymore and all the German brands SUVs are using 3.5L V-6 diesels now. But I did notice my Touareg has not dropped a penny in value since I bought it (the V-10 TDI). The new VW V-6 has 4 valve, twin cam heads on the diesel!!!!! With over 400lb-ft of torque and check out the mileage. Having owned diesels now for over 4 years we are never going back to gas! Besides changing the oil and the fuel filter there is NO other maintenance, NO TUNE UPS!!! They just go and of course do they ever PULL!
OK as far as Korean cars go, you don't pay much, they last until you paid them off you should be happy! Just not my cup of tea, I have sold my BMW's with a minimum of 200k and up to 400k miles of my usage and still have gotten at least 5k for them. When we traded in the wife's 2006 VW Diesel Jetta with 56k trouble free miles on it for her new Jetta Sport Wagon we were hoping to get 10k because we still owed 9k for it, dang if the dealer didn't give us 12.5k for a car we paid 19k for new (blue book was 15 to 16k retail!)! That was 3.5k more than we owed and 2.5k more than I thought I was getting. Turns out these diesels hold their value Very Well too!

[Sled491]

Yeah you have that one spot on. Diesels do hold there value better. That beast in you tourag was maybe chewing up some drive line parts? Maybe that's why they stopped importing that engine?

My Dodge had 220 000 miles before I ran over that pesky concrete barrier at 45. Of course I lost but my truck put up a much better fight than any other vehicle would have :D

[zegm]

my driveline is fine, they stop importing this engine for a couple of reasons: they were special order only and the sticker price on them was........WAY, WAY up there and they wanted to bring in the 50 state legal 3.5L diesel (mine was never sold in California) at a cost of what I payed for mine used. Keep in mind that the Touareg, the Audi Q7 and the Porsche Cayanne are the same vehicle and while I have the most torque the Turbo Cayanne puts out 500hp and 515lb-ft torque so hopefully they designed the driveline to handle these loads. As a matter of fact in Europe they even put a W-12 engine in the "beast"!
With the ESP (stability control) and AWD I have never spun a tire with this bad boy. A couple of months ago I waxed a brand new Camaro SS on a wet road!!! Nothing like hooking up and taking off!!! Man you should have seen the looks I was getting at the next light from the poor boy, he wouldn't even play a second time!!!! :cool:

[Sled491]

I was only thinking about the Ford Exploder, I mean explorer. In the early days it was only available with a V 6 and it was very difficult to find one with a V 8 if at all. I built a house for a guy who did vehicle testing and wrote for various automobile magazines, he told me that the Vehicle would just tear itself apart in 4wd with the V8.

Not that you Vehicle isn't built better it was just a conclusion I drew when you mentioned not importing the V10 any more.

[Ian Brantford]

a lot of times axle hop is a more a function of shocks and springs and some of the Avalanches (Z71's) come with Bilsteins (the best) and all come with coil springs!

You make a good point. Doubtless, coils are better than leafs for so many applications. I was thinking of the bump-handling situation where one tire gets lifted and the other tire, even if smart suspension keeps it from hopping, is still lifted onto its outer edge for a moment. The contact patch, at least where it has useful pressure, goes down to a fraction of its usual size. That moment may be enough to break traction on a curve or other challenging situation.


Now AWD is awesome but sending too much to the front wheels is bad as you are expecting a tire to pull and steer at the same time creating more heat and friction with the potential for the tire to break free easier as it is experiencing loads in more than one direction.

I agree. I guess that's why the Ridgeline's system can direct up to 70% of the torque to the rear wheels.


I know people who love front wheel drive cars always want to argue this one but face it there are No front wheel drive race cars.

Having experienced understeer in the past with a car, I certainly didn't want to experience it in a truck with an XLV pushing me from behind. That's why I carefully checked with other owners about my prospective truck's behaviour, both normally and in a pinch, before buying.


Chrysler tried it and it failed.

While I do agree with you about FWD-only, I don't think that Chrysler failing at it contributes any evidence one way or another. :-)


[...] oh and my independent suspended Touareg
Friggin' awesome.

[zegm]

Ian,

Would you believe I have seen guys take a solid rear axle, put it on jackstands out by the hubs and heat the tubes with a torch while jumping up and down on the differential to create some negative camber for their race cars?!!


PS VW is building a new factory in Chattanooga Tenn. to dumb down a design so that more Americans will buy it (they want to be more Accordish like). Well that's what the VW boards are saying! So right now most VW owners are NOT looking forward to what is coming out of that plant.

[Sled491]

Now that's redneck engineering :)

[Ian Brantford]

I don't mean to seem snoobish on this, but Tacomas, Rangers, Ridglines, S10's Canyons are all just toy trucks. I owned 4 toyota Tacoma's before moving to the Ford F150 SB 4x4.

I am not sure if the Tacomas that you owned are of the current generation. They have smallish interiors, but they do well as upper-mid sized trucks. The word that I've gotten from their drivers are they they do well for truck tasks within the limits of the base version, but that the towing package boasts don't hold up well w.r.t. handling when going much past 5000 lbs.

I wouldn't try to use the Ranger, S10 (or my old Sonoma/S15) or the Canyon to tow my XLV. They are firmly in the small-to-mid-size range. However, my Ridgeline does this task very well. In fact, my father and I went over the list of tasks that have ever been asked of his Silverado: towing trailers, hauling his full-size ATV, carrying half a ton of building supplies, etc. The Ridgeline does them too, without the stress of wondering about another breakdown. The Silverado can tow a bigger trailer, but that's something that's never happened during my father's lifetime. The Ridgeline does some other things even better, and is now the preferred truck for all tasks. If the Ridgeline can replace a non-toy truck, it is not a toy.

[zegm]

You know we loved our Avalanche too! Just not the gas mileage with that 4:10 rear axle ratio I ordered!